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20,000 Parsecs Across The Galaxy
Random thought 
14th-Nov-2007 09:33 pm
palps
So I'm driving home, working out plot lines in my head, and I'm suddenly struck by the odd dialogue in a crucial scene in ESB. Given that it's SW, I guess I shouldn't be phased by odd dialogue, but that's not really my point.

Anyway, in ESB when Palps calls Vader to discuss the Luke problem, Vader makes the plea,"If he could be turned, he could be a powerful ally." Turned is the word that is used consistently throughout the saga to describe one who has made the journey to the Dark Side. And turned ain't a good thing. Like milk that has turned, a person who has turned is corrupted, rotten, and no good anymore.

Now given that Vader and Palpatine have turned to the Dark Side, do they view themselves as corrupted? Wouldn't it be more likely that Palps especially would say,"If he could be enlightened..."?
Comments 
15th-Nov-2007 08:02 am (UTC)
I've never thought of "turned," in SW, as meaning spoiled or corrupted. I've always interpreted "turned" as being short for "turned away from," implying that the side the speaker wants the subject turned away from is bad/inferior, something that should be avoided or steered clear of.

Interesting!

Though, now that I think about it more, your interpretation of the dialogue makes a lot of sense in the SWverse. I mean, I don't think Vader or Palpatine thinks the Dark Side is good, meaning morally right, righteous, anything like that. I think V. and P. would argue that the Dark Side is more powerful and sticking to the rules of the Light Side is foolish/weak/simplistic, but that's about it.
16th-Nov-2007 06:19 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I don't know why "turned" has such a negative connotation to me. Your interpretation is more like "diverted", which gives a feel of them "saving" Luke from the wrong path.

No doubt, though, that Palpatine took great joy in "turning" Anakin away from the Jedi.
15th-Nov-2007 04:07 pm (UTC)
Hmmm, I never thought of it using that sense of the word turn. More the turn a page. Or to turn away, to divert something along a different path, though I must say you have an interesting take.

I definitely think Palpatine thought of the Dark Side as the smarter and stronger path - that causing Luke to turn away from the Light and towards the Dark would actually be a good thing for Luke.

So I'm driving home, working out plot lines in my head, and I'm suddenly struck by the odd dialogue in a crucial scene in ESB. Given that it's SW, I guess I shouldn't be phased by odd dialogue, but that's not really my point.

So plot lines for Protege, or That Which Remains or your original writing? Or hopefully, all three?
16th-Nov-2007 06:22 pm (UTC)
Yeah, maybe I'm reading too much into that, because you're the second person to give that interpretation. It makes sense now that I think about it.

As for which story, it's The Protege'. I'm incapable of writing multiple stories simultaneously like vikkir can.
8th-Dec-2007 09:04 am (UTC)
I see Vader and especially Palpatine as having a rather Nietzsche-like attitude. I don't think either of them would ever claim to be "good" or even "enlightened" (especially since the latter word is built on "light," which in the SW universe certainly has connotations!). If you pressed him, I think Vader might even admit that he is "evil," according to popular convention, but I don't think he'd particularly care.

Palpatine, on the other hand, would probably go all out. For him there is no good or evil, only power and the will to it. He'd probably say that the weak masses have invented a code of morality as an effort to protect themselves from the strong (i.e., those with the will to power). So I don't think Palpatine would claim to be either good or evil, because those categories are meaningless to him - mere constructs of people not strong enough to face the truth.

All that said, I heard "turned" as meaning something like turning a corner, but inevitably. In that sense Palpatine might perceive it as "enlightenment" (though I doubt he'd use that word), because once you've learned the truth, you can't go back. It's interesting that Yoda essentially thinks the same thing: "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." They actually share quite a lot of opinions... ;)
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